The Conspiracy

No Israel, no harmony

http://newvoices.org/2010/09/15/no-israel-no-harmony/

Even though I’m a Zionist and a Jewish woman, I’m also an eternal Pollyanna. I truly believe that all people are good. I have spent a lot of my ink here begging people not to hate on the Cordoba Project, a lot of my free time pleading with my fellow Jews to remember many happy years of Muslim/Jewish coexistence and just trying to be a good neighbor and friend to anyone.

It appears that As’ad AbuKhalil, the supposedly famous “Angry Arab News Service” blogger, is also trying to feel the love for the Jewish people. He chastises Jewish readers who embrace anti-Muslim causes that are “dangerous on the long term” and “ destined to poison for years and decades to come the relationship between Jews… and all Muslims and Arabs.”  OK, As’ad. Now you’re going to condemn those in Arab world who spread lies about Jews, right?

Nope. Instead we get this:

I of course want only poisoned relationship[s] with Israel, but I believe that our fierce and categorical rejection of Zionism in Palestine should be separate from the attempt to establish–especially after the demise of Israel–harmony and brotherhood/sisterhood between Arabs/Muslims and Jews.

As soon as Israel is destroyed, he wants to build bridges between Arabs and Jews, and then we can have harmony and brotherhood/sisterhood. If this is his idea of friendship, he must get invited to all the parties.

This isn’t the first time I’ve heard this view. But this isn’t some loony Al Qaeda nutjob in a cave in Afghanistan; this is a college professor at Cal State Stanislaus, deciding that certain countries do not have a right to exist.  I’m all for freedom of speech, but it makes me realize that there are people in this world who don’t get that destroying Israel isn’t a very peaceful gesture. This is why I am so very grateful to Fidel Castro for speaking up for the Jewish people and finally understanding what Jews have gone through for the last two millennia.  Mr. Castro may have his issues, but he gets what many Jews hear when they listen to people talking about the destruction of the Jewish state.

Natan Sharansky spoke of the three Ds which define whether this is bigotry or constructive criticism: demonization, double standards and delegitimization.  This “Angry Arab” displays all three—making this, according to Sharansky, bigotry.

After examining fifteen pages of his site, I could not find a single positive mention of Israel. If earlier examples can be found, I would be happy to retract that statement. The Angry Arab sees Israel as an evil state.

This leads into the double standards.  He greets any misdeed Israel commits with the phrase “This is Zionism,” but portrays any sins committed by Muslims  as an isolated acts, not a representative of Islam.  If Israel does anything right, he ignores it; if Israel does anything wrong, it doesn’t deserve to exist. Could anyone survive such rigorous scrutiny? I doubt if even the “Angry Arab” could.

Finally, he engages in delegitimization. No other country in the world has its very existence under debate, but the Children of Israel have always been a chosen people.  The “Angry Arab” rejoices that “Israel’s years are numbered,” and talks of his “excitement” that “young Arabs, secular and religious, all carry the flame of rejecting Zionism categorically.” It must be wonderful to see so many people willing to spend another generation at war, trying to destroy their fellow man.

I have to wonder how he plans to liquidate the land of Zionists and liberate it, but there’s no way to do it peacefully.   There can be no sisterhood/brotherhood with those who delegitimize Jews as a people and seek to destroy a nation-state. There are lines that can’t be crossed.

Is this the kind of professor California wants on its payrolls?

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47 Older Responses to “No Israel, no harmony”

  1. Veelo
    September 16, 2010 at 1:02 pm #

    You seem to be conflating “Judaism” and “Zionism” – just because Israel does not deserve to exist as a Zionist or Jewish state, it doesn’t mean the Jews in the area have to leave. Palestine can exist as a secular, bi-national state much more legitimately than Israel can.

  2. ahmed lubnani
    September 16, 2010 at 1:35 pm #

    “OK, As’ad. Now you’re going to condemn those in Arab world who spread lies about Jews, right? Nope.”

    well, actually, if you did read 15 of pages of his blog, as you claim you did, you would notice that, well, YES he does categorically denounce antisemitism in all its forms and from whoever it may come from. he even denounces antisemites who are considered friendly by israel and their lobby in the US. do not be a bigot yourself, go back and check, it´s written all over his blog.

  3. Will Owen
    September 16, 2010 at 1:45 pm #

    One thing that Angry Arab does that I like, is that he views every country in the middle east as equal. Yes, he thinks the state of Israel must be destroyed, but he also thinks the states of Lebanon, Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Iran, Saudi Arabia, U.A.E, U.S.A, England, Russia, Poland, etc, must be destroyed. He’s an anarchist, and a very consistent one at that.

  4. Bert
    September 16, 2010 at 2:00 pm #

    Zionism isn’t Judaism. Zionism is what As’ad is implaccably opposed to, and if there isn’t anything positive about the State of Israel on fifteen (or more) pages of his blog, that’s because there’s nothing positive about a state founded by colonial settlers on the basis of ethnic cleansing. Full stop. And quite frankly, why should people concerned about anti-Muslim bigotry rush to Israel’s defence, when organisations like the ADL are itching to embrace scapegoating and hatred of Muslims?

  5. Elle Weiss (proud to be a Zionist Hoodlum)
    September 16, 2010 at 2:43 pm #

    Veelo, do you have any other countries you believe do not deserve the right to exist? A large part of much of Judaism is Zionism, the belief that Jews are a people and the state of Israel is part of our religion. And do the people of either said want a secular bi-national state? Or do you plan to dictate that to them?

    http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/fullcomment/archive/2009/05/13/benny-morris-the-myth-of-a-secular-palestine.aspx

    Ahmed, I am saying he himself is anti-semitic. Destroying a nation state is inherently anti-semitic. Please indicate an example. Here are some choice ones :

    Zionism is racism–and pornography
    “Israel’s foreign Ministry has acquired the @Israel username on Twitter, the social networking site, from the Spanish owner of adult porn sites.”

    So by buying from someone who also happens to own adult porn, he connects Zionism with pornography.

    Friday, September 10, 2010
    He would have gotten away with his remarks had they were directed only against Muslims
    “Thilo Sarrazin, German Banker, To Quit After Remarks About Jews, Muslims”

    So basically, Jews have special powers Muslims don’t.

    rejection of Israel
    I spent more than 2 1/2 months in Lebanon this summer. And was excited to see that young Arabs, secular and religious, all carry the flame of rejecting Zionism categorically. Another reason why Israel’s years are numbered.
    Posted by As’ad at 6:41 AM Email ThisBlogThis!Share to TwitterShare to FacebookShare to Google Buzz

    Israel’s days are numbered is a threat.

    Do you want me to continue?

    In the service of occupation
    “The Palestinian Authority announced Tuesday that it had arrested six men who had carried out two terror attacks that killed four Israelis and injured two last week.” Do those stooges also look for Israeli killers?

    Angry that the PA arresting terrorists who killed Jews? Imagine that!

    peace
    Of course peace won’t emerge from the masquerade in Washington, DC but will eventually emerge–but only after the demise of Israel and the elimination of Zionism from historic Palestine.
    Posted by As’ad at 10:00 AM

    Elimination of Zionism? Does that include elimination of Zionists too? Does he plan to gas them?

    If I have missed something, please inform me.

  6. moonsear
    September 16, 2010 at 2:52 pm #

    I am an avid reader of As’ad Abu Khalil. and his blog is not supposedly famous…it actually is.

    Israel and any other “religious messianic state” should have no right to exist (including saudi arabia) (Iran is an Islamic regime that should end, but as a country, Persian country has always existed contrarily to Israel that has not continuously existed). I am an anti-zionist not an anti-semite.

  7. moonsear
    September 16, 2010 at 2:53 pm #

    and this is As’ad’s answer

    http://angryarab.blogspot.com/2010/09/zionist-hoodlums.html

  8. Gisele from beirut
    September 16, 2010 at 3:01 pm #

    I enjoy reading Angryarab blog every single day and one thing i am strongly convinced of , Assad is NOT anti semitic , he is opposed to zionism , occupation and oppression .

  9. Elle Weiss (proud to be a Zionist Hoodlum)
    September 16, 2010 at 3:10 pm #

    Moonsear, when someone says they plan to “eliminate” Israel, and deny a country’s right to exist, that’s anti-semitic. You wish to destroy me, as an Israeli Jewish person. Zionism is the belief in Jewish Nationalism. Let’s see Asad call for the elimination of Iran as a country and see how Iranians take it? As for his response, he’s fairly patronizing and dismissive, engaging in a personal attack against me. Classy, “hoodlum”? I’m honored by his attack, it means he has nothing better to do than resort to personal insults. I expected better.

    Will, i’ll give you that. He hates everyone equally, but the venom towards Israel frightens me.

    Zionism is the belief in Jewish nationalism. And nothing positive? That’s pretty bigoted itself, and I will be happy to unpack your lies about the State of Israel, which was founded by Holocaust survivors, including my grandfather, who had survived Nazi oppression.
    The term colonialist is false. “Colonialism is a system in which a state claims sovereignty over territory and people outside its own boundaries, often to facilitate economic domination over their resources, labor, and often markets.” What state were the Jews?

    “[T]housands.[of small farmers].during the period 1880-1920 moved from the rural areas to the towns or other villages, as a result of debts, a multiplicity of heirs, famine or other causes unconnected to Jewish land purchases.” Historian Benny Morris There was no ethnic cleansing.
    “This illegal[ Arab] immigration was not only going on from the Sinai, but also from Trans-Jordan and Syria, and it is very difficult to make a case out for the misery of the Arabs [as Arabs opposed to Jewish settlement were claiming] if at the same time their compatriots from adjoining states could not be kept from going in to share that misery.” C.S. Jarvis, Governor of the Sinai from 1923-36
    You can full stop all you wish, but it doesn’t make it true. Separating Zionism from Judaism is not something Asad can do at his whim. He cannot ask to destroy us with one hand and ask for friendship with the other hand.
    Check my articles, I’ve come out strongly in favor of defending Muslims on this very site and commended the ADL.

  10. Elle Weiss (proud to be a Zionist Hoodlum)
    September 16, 2010 at 3:24 pm #

    Sorry, that was condemned, argh.

    As a Jewish person, I feel his action are Anti-Semitic, Gisele. His actions make many Jewish people less safe. So defending him in that way is your gentile privilege, you don’t have to deal with his problematic comments real world consequences. Read it through an Israeli Jew’s eye.

  11. Farleft
    September 16, 2010 at 3:49 pm #

    Elle,

    We…the gentiles of the world, are sick and tired of seeing everything through an Israeli Jew’s perspective. It’s time the world took the oppressed perspective for once…the Palestinian one. They’re the people whom Israelis displaced, occupied, and continue to subject to inhumane conditions in violation of international law. Here you are calling a California professor antisemetic without understanding his perspective…His perspective may be a threat to your mode of living, but that’s only because you support a racist regime that denies Palestinians a land of their own and a life free from oppression or self determination. He is only a threat to you in that he supports equality and justice, whereas Israel was created illegally and through forceful and bloody eviction of an innocent civilian population. You have the nerve to insinuate that Abukhalil would support the gassing of zionists, as if he was a supporter of Nazi techniques to eliminate Jews from the world. You obviously know nothing about Asad Abukhalil, are perfectly happy to smear him, and yet you still want people to listen to you as if you offer anything less than absurdity? You should be ashamed of yourself.

    And by the way…Abukhalil is not “supposedly famous”. He is indeed famous…and many years from now he will be credited forbringing forth the true nature of Israel’s brutal oppression of Palestine to the masses…He has more power and reach than you can imagine. I suggest you pay more attention to him. He’s more than just a blogging professor.

  12. richard
    September 16, 2010 at 4:53 pm #

    You obviously don’t understand the conceptual differences between Zionism and Jews. Israel as a Zionist state, an anti-democratic state, a colonial and racist institution, has to be replaced by a democratic state, a non-religious state, a non-Zionist state. Jews have the right to live and exist there. But it won’t belong to them exclusively. Jews in Israel/Palestine will have to unlearn the racism and arrogance they’ve inculcated, and share the land and political institutions with the real indigenous peoples. There is nothing anti-Semitic in being against Zionism. Being anti-Zionist is about affirming universal human values and understandings. Zionism is about blood, clan and tribalism. It is violence and racism. It actually shares the ideological precepts as Nazism (Jews as a permanent ‘other’). You need to get over Zionism. It is a disease wrecking your sense of humanity and making all Jews in Israel look like violent, racist, religious fools. There is only hope in a one state secular solution, which necessarily and positively means an end to Zionism.

  13. JMOMANI
    September 16, 2010 at 5:49 pm #

    I am a regular reader of Asaad blog. He speaks against allinjustices that goes on in the middle east. He speaks out against the treatment of asian maids for example in Lebanon in particular, the treatment of women in KSA to use but few examples. Of course Israel takes the lion share because of its daily abuses of the palastinian population.Israel was established with the use of mass murders and ethnic cleansing and it contiues to target civilians in times of conflict as it did in lebanon and gaza. It’s subjugation of the palestinian people has been going on unhindered for the last 62 years. And as a result, Asaad Abukhalil believes that a nation that lives by the sword will definitely perish by it, a nation that lives by murder(no matter what spin they put on it) will not last. I happen to agree…I am suprised you don’t!!

  14. Harpo Jaeger
    September 16, 2010 at 5:56 pm #

    I have to say that I disagree with everyone here. Elle, while I respect your feeling that “Zionism is a large part of Judaism,” it’s unfair to assume that’s the case for all Jews. You have every right to feel that way, but don’t use all other Jews to make your point.
    And the rest of you need to have more respect for Elle’s Zionism. While I personally don’t identify as a Zionist (I do identify as a Jews), I’m not going to criticize what is obviously an important part of Elle’s identity.
    I agree that it’s something of a double standard to call for Israel’s disassembly and not other states, but this argument is all too often used to shut down debate on anything relating to the fundamentals of Israel’s existence as a Jewish state. That’s a conversation we need to be able to have, and it’s harmful to both the discourse and Israel itself in the long run not to.

  15. Jonathan
    September 16, 2010 at 6:02 pm #

    It is anti-semitic to deny a countrys right to exist? Wow, that guys who prevent the emergence of the state of Palestine must be anti-semites par excellence…

    Stop that silly attempts to put anti-semitism and anti-zionism on the same level.
    In fact there are anti-zionists who are at the same time anti-semites. But there are also anti-semites who support zionist ideas (take Nick Griffin or infamous Anwar al-Sadat for example). And of course there is the majority of anti-zionists who have nothing to do with anti-semitism, aside from people like you, who try to equate them with anti-semites for political reasons.

    His actions make many Jewish people less safe? He, who militates regularly against anti-semitism in the arab world, but also in the west? (Just read his blog!)
    The whole history of Israel made the Arab people less safe! But in a completely different dimension (and not via statements on a blog)

  16. Yedidya Schwartz
    September 16, 2010 at 6:11 pm #

    Something people rarely mention: Anti-Semitism was for a while a very fashionable political term, touted by those who didn’t want to be accused of crass “Jew-hatred.” Since Anti-Semitism had a sound “scholarly,” “rational,” racial basis, is was considered entirely politically correct, much like Anti-Zionism today.
    That is, until it caused the death of millions of Jews.
    So perhaps that’s what it will take with Anti-Zionism – it will be considered politically correct and fashionable, distinct from the ugly “Antisemitism” much the way Antisemitism was distinct from the even uglier “Judenhass.”
    … until it causes the death of millions of Zionists.
    Then, perhaps, Anti-Zionism will cease to be acceptable. But I have no doubt that another word will be forthcoming. People are creative.

  17. Arab Advocate
    September 16, 2010 at 6:13 pm #

    I don’t understand your objections to the AngryArab. And your fabricated outrage is amusing. Of course Israel must be dismantled before Arabs and Jews can live together. And the Zionist entity is illegitimate and has no right to exist. It is illegitimate because Zionism itself is illegitimate, and the underlying ideology of Israel will never be legitimate.

    Do you really think European colonizers can come to Palestine, ethnically cleanse the indigenous population, and create a racist state on the ruins of the indigenous society and then have peace? This is ludicrous. You can’t have peace before the events of 1947-48 are reversed and the Zionist entity is dismantled. This is not destroying a country or wiping out a people as you suggest. It was Palestine that the Zionists have been attempting to erase from the map, and it is the Palestinians that have been singled out for slaughter by Israel.

    AngryArab is absolutey correct. I agree with him. The Zionist state is illegitimate, Israel has no right to exist in Palestine, and only a single state with a one person one vote system installed after the return of all the Palestinians to their homeland will allow peace to prevail. The European settlers in Palestine should feel grateful the Palestinians are not asking them to go back home. Allowing them to stay in Palestine and live as equals is the most magnanimous offer a colonized people has ever made to their colonizers.

    Keep shouting “anti-Semitism” and “they want to kill the Jews” all day long. It no longer works.

  18. Ben Sales
    September 16, 2010 at 6:23 pm #

    To all those who are defending the “Angry Arab,” statements calling for “only poisoned relationship[s] with Israel” and “the demise of Israel” are hardly productive, no matter what you call it. Yes, there are racist elements to the Zionist enterprise, and they need to be fixed, but that does not necessarily entail racism, and it certainly doesn’t justify AA’s extreme language, which would seem to foment violence that will lead to the deaths of both Jews and Palestinians. Do AA’s supporters think such violence is justified?

    On another note, why isn’t AA praising the majority of Jews who have come out in support of the COrdoba Initiative? It looks to me like Jews, especially the younger generation, are standing up for Muslim rights. For more info check out http://blog.newvoices.org/?p=4269

  19. To the Non-Palestinian anti-Zionists
    September 16, 2010 at 6:33 pm #

    To many of the responses, re:Zionism and anti-Zionism.
    There are unquestionably many things wrong with Zionism. That said, there are also unquestionably many things wrong with the feverish obsession non-Palestinian ‘leftists’ have for attacking Zionism. Almost every state in the Middle East has religion written into its constitution (including Lebanon, 3la fikra). If one is Palestinian, the choice to focus on Zionism and anti-Zionism is indeed quite understandable. If one is not, however, this anti-Zionist obsession is unhealthy and unfair. There are plenty of other causes with far higher death tolls and far more clear cut examples of one-sided religiously-based persecution.
    So to the non-Palestinian anti-Zionists: maybe try to deal with this issue in a more balanced way. I know that its easy and satisfying to label ZIonism as evil, but in reality Zionism is a deeply complex, nuanced and multi-layered phenomenon. Illustrating this point, can any of the self-declared anti-Zionists really give a clear explanation of what Zionism actually is? (And try here, just for the sake of the thought experiment, to give something a bit more thoughtful than “a racist fascist colonialist movement bent on death and hatred.” When did Zionism start, what were the reasons behind the movement, where does history and religion fit into the equation, what are some of the different strains of Zionism, who are some of Zionism’s most influential thinkers, what are the different views of early and contemporary Zionists on the conflict with the Palestinians and Israel’s role in the world, et cetera.)

  20. Colm O' Toole
    September 16, 2010 at 7:36 pm #

    After reading the post and comments I must say that you seem to have a very biased dissonance towards Israel. As others have mentioned you conflating Judaism with Zionism is inaccurate and thoughtless. There are plenty of Jews that are Anti Zionist and against the concept of a Jewish state. The very idea of a Jewish state is considered by many to be against the principles of the Jewish faith and Torah Law.

    Also saying that calling for the end of Israel is akin to calling for the end of Jews and therefore Anti-Semitic is moronic. Israel is a artificial nation. Jews have survived 2,000 years without a state and prospered. Jews will continue to survive and prosper after the true state of Palestine has returned.

    On a final note in the comments you also say “No other state has to argue for its existence”. This is untrue as well. Northern Ireland is one example (coincidentally created in the same Balfour Declaration that created Israel). But many other examples can be found. New states emerge all the time and borders are never set in stone. Look at Kashmir look at Chechyna look at almost all of Sub-Saharan Africa, look at Tibet or Kosovo or North Korea-South Korea all of them either new states or states that have been swallowed up by other countries.

  21. Brandon Springer
    September 16, 2010 at 8:05 pm #

    Wow. I think we all need to take a quick collective breath. In … and Out. Better? So the issue at hand is a contentious one. It has been for the past century. It’s messy, it’s emotional and there’s a hell of a lot of baggage involved. We must tread carefully here (as we have not in the past).

    Elle, I understand your anger at Professor AbuKhalil and the violent tendencies of his rhetoric. But the point remains that while Zionism may be tied to a certain strain of Jewish nationalism, it is not a uniquely Jewish endeavor nor is global Jewry in majority Zionist. Nor are Zionists as a group homogenous (are you reading professor?). I truly believe that Theodore Herzl, the father of modern Zionism, would be appalled at the result of his dream of a Jewish homeland. But, though I firmly do NOT identify as a Zionist, nor do I feel any connection to the state of Israel as an American Jew (not that I am denying the very real emotional and familial connections many Jews do feel to Israel), I will not take a side on the legitimacy of the state of Israel in this venue.

    The reality of the situation is that Israel exists as a political state and it will for the foreseeable future. Professor AbuKhalil (and all associated), I can understand your discontent and fury with the political Zionist leaders of Israel, there foreign and domestic policies. I can relate to an extent. There is significant oppression that exists in Israel. There are walls and borders and boundaries that only serve to divide, stir animosity and render invisible individuals, communities and their struggle to exist under an Israeli occupation. So, no, Professor AbuKhalil, I do not think you are an anti-Semite, but calls for violence and destruction will not solve the deadly dilemma faced by Israelis and Palestinians in Israel/Palestine. In fact, it will only serve to make matters worse.

    I would like to second Ben’s comment and add that we need to come to real solutions given the political reality of the situation to the problems that face Israelis and Palestinians today. Only together, calmly and rationally, with respect to both sides emotional investment in the issue at hand, can we come to solutions that can best serve all parties involved.

  22. soggydan
    September 16, 2010 at 8:08 pm #

    If only the Angry Lebanese Shia would be brave enough to again allow comments on his blog, his anti-semitic screeds could be challenged there, but, alas, he has no…falafels, so his cultist followers will have to discuss his bile here.

  23. Samey Arandi
    September 16, 2010 at 9:22 pm #

    And when we realized the Zionist is one of the racism movements in the modern history and may be in the whole history, couldn’t believe how you build your believe on the blood of another human, and until when you going to finish this blood shower. Count how many one you killed and how many wars you did then think what are you doing in the area.
    United States kicked Sadam Husain of Iraq because he made 2 wars and killed a lot of people; remember Sabra and Shatela, during days 28 years, Israelis youth with the invasion Zionist army uniform supervising the slaughtering of 3000 normal humans like you and me.
    but now you just feel not guilty to kill(that’s racism), United states must destroy Israel and create a new state like what they are doing now in Iraq, Sunni people still living there normally with no Baath party, I’m supporting this one, we have to erase the Zionist and racism, build a new state, I hope you are focusing to support this kind of ideas better than looking and reading Abu Khalil’s blog.

  24. Random Londoner
    September 16, 2010 at 9:23 pm #

    I’ve been reading As’ad’s blog for years and found his recent prediction on the future relations between Jews and Muslims and Arabs utterly shocking.

    Although Jewish, I don’t have much time for Zionism; it’s not a particularly inspiring project for me. That said. I don’t think anything good would come out of the destruction of the Israeli state.

    Israel is certainly responsible of horrific war crimes (most recently during the Gaza war) and its birth is tainted with ethnic cleansing. But it doesn’t necessarily follow from that that the best thing for the millions of people living in “historic Palestine” would be the disappearance of the Zionist entity. Would people live happily together in the embrace of colour-blind secularism? Where has that worked so far? Think of Belgium, the former Yugoslavia, the Russian republic.

    There’s a logical fallacy at play here: bringing X into existence has caused untold suffering, hence dismantling X would solve the problem. Not true. People who support Hamas will not get along with people who support Shas. What would happen if they were forced to live in the same country? The possibility of massive random killings and even civil war doesn’t seem far-fetched.

    How would As’ad address that? I seem to remember him advocating that some Israelis should leave. Fair enough, Lieberman could leave for Moldova, for instance. How about the others? Would Egypt be happy to see them back? Would Syria, Iraq? Where should third or fourth-generation Israelis go if they weren’t to get along with his new fellow citizens? Does a descendant of a European immigrant stay a colonizer for ever? What does As’ad think of people who encourage immigrants or their descendants to get back to their country of “origin”? Does their fate somehow depend on whether or not the immigrants took over from the “native” population?

    As’ad also advocates armed struggle against Israel. Since at the moment Israel is much stronger than the Palestinian “resistance”, this would entail many more years of bloodshed —mostly of Palestinians. But you see, he’s an idealist; he can’t bring himself to suggest negotiations. He won’t concede even a modicum of legitimacy to the Zionist entity. How about this, As’ad? Why not aim for a two-state solution as a stepping stone and work for a peaceful reunification of the entire region afterwards? Would that not reduce Palestinian suffering faster than waiting for the demise of Israel? Could a one-state solution not be achieved better through this peaceful intermediate step than through years of continuing violence?

    Re anti-Semitism… let’s see. All those posts about Israel’s “dirty hands”, the continual vilification of an entire nation based on random acts of random people who happen to hold an Israeli passport, his references to the IDF as a terrorist organisation (never seen that term used for the American armed forces however critical As’ad has been of the Iraq and Afghanistan occupation), his belief in the existence of an ever-present, all-powerful (Zionist) lobby. Hmmm, what would you call that?

    The fact that unwarranted accusations of anti-Semitism are routinely hurled at anti-Zionists doesn’t mean that no anti-Zionist entertains anti-Semitic ideas. Defending oneself against charges of anti-Semitism invoking one’s “mere” anti-Zionism is a predicable tactic as well. I won’t say “propaganda”, because I assume that As’ad’ (unlike Elle Weiss, apparently) is not part of a secret organisation.

    The post decrying Elie Frizli’s anti-Semitism a day after maybe going too far with the Jew thing? Classic.

  25. selina
    September 16, 2010 at 10:46 pm #

    No Justice, No Peace, No Harmony. In that order, it’s that simple. Calling for peace without justice is putting the cart before the horse. And by calling for justice, we the “gentile of the world”, are calling for all Israeli’s to recognize the bloody reality of how their nation was created and then do what’s right to challenge their own society and illegitimate, corrupt government. It is the same call made by Native Americans, Blacks, and Latinos to those in power in the illegitimate and corrupt US of Amerikkka. There will never be peace and harmony until the European colonizers of the world start asking themselves some serious questions about how their colonial nations came about.

    There is a beautiful article, published at Colorlines.com, about this No Justice, No Peace theory as told by the great Dr. King:

    http://colorlines.com/archives/2010/08/photo_creative_commonsthe_national_archives.html

    I salute Professor As’ad AbuKhalil and Que Viva El Pueblo Palestina!

  26. Arab Advocate
    September 16, 2010 at 11:33 pm #

    On another note, why isn’t AA praising the majority of Jews who have come out in support of the COrdoba Initiative? It looks to me like Jews, especially the younger generation, are standing up for Muslim rights. For more info check out http://blog.newvoices.org/?p=4269

    Actually they have been “praising” many Jews. I don’t think they should. For example, Bloomberg has been repeatedly thanked by Muslims and Arabs. Why should they? Why should they thank Jews or any other US citizens for standing up for their constitutional rights? Why is the recognition of the rights of a Muslim under the constitution considered to a noble gesture worthy of praise?

    Secondly, why ask Muslims to specifically thank Jews? That’s an interesting request that we should all take notice of and think about.

    Finally, no Jewish American or any other supporter of Zionism should be praised for supporting the constitutional rights of fellow citizens who happen to be Muslim while they support the crimes of Israel. When Israel was slaughtering Palestinians two years ago in Gaza, Bloomberg went to Israel to support their crimes against humanity. And you would expect Arabs to forget this stance and say “thank you” for supporting the Mosque?! Are you kidding me!?

  27. Zod
    September 16, 2010 at 11:39 pm #

    Sharansky as a guide to what is bigotry? That’s rich! What a ridiculous column.

  28. Arab Advocate
    September 16, 2010 at 11:39 pm #

    Asking anyone to discuss the merits of Zionism is offensive. Zionism is about as nuanced as German Fascism, and it’s not worthy of debate. Any discussion must begin with a clear condemnation of Zionism as a racist colonial project, the dismantling of which is a prerequisite for peace.

    Furthermore, the Palestinians and other Arabs (Israel is in a state of war with all Arabs. Sadat and Hussein and their peace treaties were null and void the moment they were signed) are not required to create a constituency for peace. They are under attack and their lands are occupied. Asking Palestinians to work for peace is like asking the Jews during the Warsaw ghetto uprising to reach out to Nazi Germany. Its not only immoral, its silly.

    The facts are clear, and so is the solution. The Palestinians have been magnanimous in accepting the presence of European settlers as permanent citizens in single state of Palestine. Let the refugees return, hand over the war criminals for prosecution, begin a process or land and property restitution, and apologize, and say thanks for letting us stay.

  29. Harpo Jaeger
    September 16, 2010 at 11:42 pm #

    AA: “Fabricated outrage”? Please take people seriously. If you won’t dignify your fellow commenters at least that much, you shouldn’t be writing here.
    Why should they thank Jews or any other US citizens for standing up for their constitutional rights?
    Because so few people have. It takes courage to stand up for something unpopular, especially when, as is the case with many American Jews, there’s strong personal pressure on you to do otherwise (a la ADL, i.e.).
    re: Bloomberg:
    And you would expect Arabs to forget this stance and say “thank you” for supporting the Mosque?!
    No. It’s good that you pointed it out. It would be narrow-minded to ignore either part of the story.
    To the Non-Palestinian anti-Zionists: Zionism is a deeply complex, nuanced and multi-layered phenomenon.
    Finally, some good sense. Zionism is extremely complex, as is opposition to it. I won’t stand for anti-Zionists being lumped in with anti-Semites, and I won’t stand for Zionists being lumped in with racists. Let’s all quit the labels and have a modicum of respect.

  30. Harpo Jaeger
    September 16, 2010 at 11:45 pm #

    AA: Zionism is about as nuanced as German Fascism, and it’s not worthy of debate.
    Are you actually interested in a reasoned discussion about the pros and cons of Zionism/the State of Israel, or do you just want to throw offensive names around? I’m decidedly not a Zionist, so the fact that I’m fed up with your rhetoric should mean something.
    That said, Asking Palestinians to work for peace is like asking the Jews during the Warsaw ghetto uprising to reach out to Nazi Germany. Its not only immoral, its silly.
    I agree completely. This puts me solidly to the left of folks like J Street, for example, even though I work closely with them. I believe that Israel bears by far the largest responsibility to work for peace, simply by virtue of the giant power imbalance.

  31. Harpo Jaeger
    September 16, 2010 at 11:49 pm #

    Brandon Springer: Only together, calmly and rationally, with respect to both sides emotional investment in the issue at hand, can we come to solutions that can best serve all parties involved.
    Hear, hear! Fear and anger doesn’t make for good policy. Just look at the Tea Party.

  32. Max Moncaster
    September 17, 2010 at 12:47 am #

    Richard and the Arab Advocate both suggested a secular, single state in Palestine. Do you really thin that would work? I find it very hard to believe that without a Jewish state, Jewish people in the area would be safe. The majority of Palestinians would have no problem living side by side with Jews, but I do not think anyone can doubt that there are groups who would like to rid the area of all Jews. Even if there was a bi-national state, extremist groups would most likely claim that the remaining Jews were remnants of the Zionists and seek to exterminate them.

  33. Ahmed Lubnani
    September 17, 2010 at 1:00 am #

    Dear Elle,

    Reading back on all the comments, I think you now realize what the hell just happened. You owned yourself. You are too biased and emotionally-charged in this topic to present any view or argument free of bias. I can tell from reading your comments that, even though you are Israeli and a Zionist Jew, you demonstrate mediocre knowledge about the topic being discussed – especially at the academic level.

    I want to say some stuff and I would love that you can read it calmly and think about it in the most unbiased way possible – just try to comprehend what you are going to read (I strictly say that without meaning insult, the situation frustrates me sometimes).

    People who are anti-Zionist are not anti-Semitic per se, and thus being in favour of annuling Israel’s existence as a political authority, along with its constituent institutions, is not anti-Semitic. If I am all for the anullment of the Soviet Union and want it dismantled (i.e. eradicated, destroyed), does not mean I want to wipe it physically off the map, only politically and maybe also ideologically as a communist dictatorship. If in your heart you opposed Soviet Russia and wanted it dismantled, you are not automatically racist to its constituent people – you just oppose the system in place and wish for a nicer, friendlier Russia.

    I am anti Islamic Republic of Iran – but I am Muslim. This doesn’t make me anti-Islamic, I just oppose this particular system and administration politically, ideologically etc. Let me however cast a light to how Israel is unique in the region and how Zionism could be considered racist. To all those who keep bringing this up, yes there are Islamic laws and elements in many countries and their constitutions in the Middle East. But Israel and it’s Jewishness is different. I say that because any Jew in the world, no matter what their race, background etc is, can become an Israeli just like that, as it being a Jewish state ofcourse. But I as a Muslim, can not automatically become a Pakistani or Iranian or Saudi citizen just because they are ‘Islamic’ country. No. Iran has its people, history and territory, it just also happens that this regime and system in place has endorsed a specific socio-political project in the country, which I may or may not oppose. It doesn’t mean I am anti-Persian people or pro-Persian people. When we talk about eradicating Israel, we talk about ending its status as a Zionist and exclusively Jewish state per se, not whoever may live within that state. Just like ending Soviet Russia didn’t need the genoside of the Russian people.

    Furthermore, Zionists claim to the land of Palestine is as unfair as any rule could be. For a specific religion or people to claim a land which ‘they’ had never been to for thousands of years because of a short period of setllement punctuated by other people’s settlement, along with all the cultural, historical and religious contributions they brought to this land, is to deny the recognition of that region’s diversity. I.e. for some Jews (from many races, some of whom had never even had a presence on the land historically) to claim ownership and sovereignty over a land built by Jews, Christians and Muslims is wrong. It is like me writing a news article with associates but claiming it is all mine – and only Muslims can read it, even though I had Christian, Jewish, Buddhist and Atheist associated contributing – as a vague example. I like to say this to all Zionists: Jews built the Pyramids, alongside other Egyptians. Does this mean that the Jewish people, and not the Egyptian people, own this structure? Just like Palestinian Muslims now build your settlements and irrigate your lands to make a living?

    Also, please refrain from waffling into victimisation – the Holocaust was a result of European anti-Semitism, the Palestinians should not pay the price. Israel was the result of European anti-Semitism, not their love of Jews. I myself, brothers, mum and dad were the survivors of Israel’s truly terrorifying invasions, butchery, bombing and massacres. However, according to what you are saying, I am a victim of the Jews, not Israel. The day I have to say that would be a sad day, because that would make me a true racist and anti-Semite. But more so because the Jews are the last people who should be described in this way. Unfortunately, your fantasy of what Israel has and will do for world Jewery is wrong – your neighbours all hate you (Zionists/Israelis) for a reason, and believe me it has nothing to do with religion. Just ask the Turks, French and Brits before you.
    regret that i can call myself the survivor of jewish bombing, invasion, massacre and butchering.

  34. Ahmed Lubnani
    September 17, 2010 at 1:01 am #

    PS Last line way weird copy-paste type. Please ignore

  35. Max Moncaster
    September 17, 2010 at 1:34 am #

    Another thing to add, that people may not like to hear. Please read my whole post, so that you refrain from knee jerk reactions and taking my words out of context.

    For those who want the Jewish state to be dismantled, and not called a Jewish state, get over it. Israel, as the state of the Jewish people, is here to stay. You can point all the fingers you want, it will not change the fact that there are too many people invested in Zionism for it to stop. Millions of Jews have moved there not because they are hell bent on oppressions the Palestinians, but because they want to live in the Land of Israel in a Jewish state. Likewise, the Palestinians will not go away. The occupation is unsustainable. And for the people who say there are no real “Palestinian” people, or they have many Muslim states to go to, stop. Even if you are correct and the Palestinians did not used to exist, they do now. And they want a state of their own, which they have the right to establish.

    If we have any hope of achieving a real peace, we can’t argue over the historical record or who was right or wrong in the past. We can dig up dirt on both sides pretty easily. We have to look at the situation AS IT IS TODAY and find a solution.

  36. Elle Weiss
    September 17, 2010 at 1:56 am #

    As the Holiest day of the Jewish calender, Yom Kippur is tomorrow, I will not have the time to individually answer people at this point. I am happy to talk more, but the holiday must come first.

    Best,

    Elle

  37. Arab Advocate
    September 17, 2010 at 2:54 am #

    AA: Zionism is about as nuanced as German Fascism, and it’s not worthy of debate.
    Are you actually interested in a reasoned discussion about the pros and cons of Zionism/the State of Israel,

    Of course not! I would never enter into any such discussion. Pretending Zionism has “pro” and “cons” is what’s offensive. Any discussion must begin with a condemnation of Zionism.

    Would you also suggest that Jews discuss the “pros” and “cons” of Nazis?

  38. Arab Advocate
    September 17, 2010 at 3:01 am #

    The collapse of the Zionist project is inevitable. Israel will not live to see a 100. The only issue that should be discussed is how best to manage this inevitable collapse. I worry about the European settlers in Palestine. I would like to ensure their safety and security, but if the usurping Zionist entity continues its barbaric policies I worry this won’t be possible. The AngryArab is correct, we do not want to poison relations between Arabs and Jews anymore than they have been already. AngryArab has always emphasized the need to separate Israel and Zionism from the Jews. Its amazing the writer of this article does not appreciate that.

    The notion expressed by one of the commentators above that Arabs can’t wait to slaughter Jews is racist and expected from a Zionist. The AngryArab said what he said because he is concerned about the fate of Jews in Palestine. We all are. Its true they never had a right to colonize this land, but they are there now. We need to make sure Zionism collapses as peacefully as possible. Those concered for the non-Arab population of Palestine should listen to what people like AngryArab are saying and begin to think about a Post-Zionist Palestine. Its coming. Its definitely coming. Condemn Zionism, permit the refugees to return home, begin the restitution of property, apologize, and hand over the war criminals for prosecution. This is the moral thing to do, it is the sensible thing to do, and its the safest path for everyone.

  39. Stan Cohen
    September 17, 2010 at 4:16 am #

    Let’s leave the labels out of this “discussion” shall we and return to basics. People can fume and rant about the concept of legitimacy of government and statehood and sovereignty but as Brandon Springer so poignantly notes, the reality on the ground is not likely to change. This a world that is quick to engage in finger pointing, posturing and sanctions; however, the recognition of a nation’s right to exist remains sacrosanct whether or not as INDIVIDUALS you disagree. Hell if we applied the same standards internationally I dare say most nations would fail the test as most nations have a “birthright” which involved usurping or displacing an indigenous population at some point in time however far back. We are a world that has been though 2 world wars, numerous large scale bloody conflicts and like any biological organism have learned to seek homeostasis. We clearly note that the destabilization of governments and local economies have dire regional and global implications. That said, you here on both sides of the proverbial fence demographically, politically, socially, economically, culturally, religiously and spiritually can rant on this issue as much as you’d like, but it is much better to be part of solutions then associate with problems. The waste of breath and emotion is tragic.

    Now, the focus and/or crux of this “discussion” should be on asking if there even IS a tenable solution – at least at the present time or within our generation. There is the idealistic chatter here of dismantling the status quo and enacting reforms to assure the greater good of all, so that “all” can live in peace and harmony for ever after. Sounds like the love cry of the American 60’s or the Soviet socialist utopia etc. etc. etc. We should all let the hallucinogens we’ve been taking wear off so we can better ground ourselves back in reality and continue a more reasonable conversation. The fact on the ground is there are now 2 peoples living in this land again. The fact on the ground is that yes there have been times of peace and harmony prior to Israel but there have also been times of great tragedy, most often to the Jewish detriment. Here is a snippet of pre-Israel history:

    http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/133313

    Truth be told, the Hatfield’s and McCoy’s of Americana have got nothing on the centuries old enmity that is ever present and brews just below the surface in this region. I do want to point out that this is more of crowd or demographic phenomenon as there will be many who refute this assertion based on individual terms. The massacre in Hebron that fateful day was defining. It takes a special kind of hatred to take an ax to the head of a child (I’ve seen the pictures) – acts that go well beyond plain civil unrest.

    There are those on the left who wax fondly and reminisce about the peaceful times prior to Israel. Well I suppose if you are a Jew that is case by case. Jews back before Israel were truly second class – shaaria law dominated (I am talking prior to the British protectorate) under Jordanian rule. Could not really have property rights and rarely prevailed against their Arab brothers in court. Yes I have also heard the tired argument that states Jews are now doing the same but that is for perhaps another “discussion”.

    The fact on the ground is that you have 2 peoples who are about as far apart from one another culturally, politically and religiously as they can be. True co-existence has failed before and is destined to fail now and into the future. This now of course is just my opinion. So you can pass all the laws you want, push for societal reforms and/or get rid of the current government and national identity and you will not change one bloody thing. There is also the irrefutable fact that there are elements in this scenario which MUST be removed from the equation – hostile elements seeking to thwart any possibility of compromise as evidenced by each and every Katusha or mortar that is fired. There were rockets prior to the Gaza disengagement and there continue to be rockets after. One must wonder what life would be like for a nation with a shared border that has daily rocket attacks. Will there be cross border raids for self defense which turn into war?

    Back to the issue of co-existence. Israel and Palestinian lands are already divided and it seems at times that one should just make those dividing lines the borders and call it a day. But of course it’s always more complicated than that. The most prevalent issue is the status of Jerusalem. You all remember that there was a better than 95% compromise proposal on the table at one time and it was turned down mainly because of Jerusalem. Jerusalem continues to be the central theme that both sides lay claim to – half a heart though is indeed the same as no heart at all, thus it is never going to be a topic in this continuing dance that can be rationally considered. Without the mutual agreement to divide that which may be indivisible, a 2 state solution my never appear. There is of course the scenario where both sides give up their claims and Jerusalem becomes an international city – a special sort of sovereignty much like Vatican City. Then there is the requirement that each side acknowledges and respects the other’s right to exist. How can you willingly create another state and attempt to have peaceful relations with that state when the articles of constitution forming that state call for the eradication of their sister nation and that state refuses to remove said incitement from their charter?

    And with that I think I will pause my rambling for the moment and give others an opportunity to have their indignation LOL

  40. salih
    September 17, 2010 at 5:05 am #

    Elle Weiss (proud to be a Zionist Hoodlum) says:
    September 16, 2010 at 3:10 pm

    A nation does not mean it is the people itself. Nation come and go. People stay and live on.
    destroying Nazi’s did not destroy Germany.
    Destroying israel will also not mean the end of Jews.

    Jews have survived more then any people and nation. They want to live.
    But like arab leaders the seam to be chosen the wrong path by thinking you can take a land because the book tells you that you own it.
    How stupid are you?

    I have nothing against a jew, but what you said abouw israel being jew and jew being a zionist, that’s just a big lie you zionist want to tell the world.
    Jews who are not zionist can lieve in peace with arabs (without current arab leaders)
    The people haves no problem with eachother.

    people will have to speak about the histroy as soon as things change.
    people make mistakes. mistakes can be a good learning process so that the same things are not repeated.

    asad is right, israel time is limited
    it’s economy and friends will die /
    it will be alone
    and it’s time will come
    israel will be gone
    it’s people (jews) will live.
    and stupid zionists willbe hopefully gone like the fucking nazis.
    and then hopelfully peace will be between to religion and people.
    jews and muslims and arabs.

    ps
    sorry for the bad english -_-

  41. Dean,USA
    September 17, 2010 at 6:20 am #

    For your information, Arabs And muslims do differentiate between Jews and zionists, and dont try to pretend that you dont know the difference. Muslims have never ever had any problems coexisting with Jews until the birth of zionism and its state called israel in Palestine. “israel” is the root of all nowadays problems in the middle east and the arab world. You cannot gather thugs from alover the world to genocide a whole people and pretend you are a peaceful state. Such plan will never work because you chose the wrong land and people. Over 60 years of wars and killing in the region are not long enough for the zionists to realise that their plan is not working.Obviously not, they are planning to widen it soon to include Iran. Why? because Iran has an on going nuclear program which is a future threat to the existence of the only nuclear rogue state in the region. For this coming adventure, you can lobby with as many countries as you can and loot as much weapons from the USA as you can grab because it is going to be your last one.

  42. Marion Delgado
    September 18, 2010 at 4:46 am #

    Zionists are on our payroll. They’ve stolen tens of billions of dollars from Americans to blacken the name of Americans all over the world, and to prop up a racist, fascist, theocratic imperialist settler state. Give us back, say, $60 billion and I’ll write a letter to stanislaus about As’ad. Deal?

  43. Tim
    September 18, 2010 at 7:49 am #

    These Zionist hoodlums show once again their ridiculous narcissism:

    to want to eliminate Israel as a solely Jewish state, they claim, is evil and “anti-Semitic”

    OK, sure … myabe …

    and they presumably (like this creep Weiss) also staunchly oppose the destruction of Palestine as an Arab Christian and Muslim state – both historically in 1948 and in teh presentday?
    They march to denounce the hatred spewed by the demagogues of Israel and their American cohort of yes-men calling for the destruction of the Islamic Republic of Iran?

    No, of course not:
    only opposing an exclusively Jewish state is evil: opposing states that are Muslim or Christian or secular and actively destroying them is something these Zionist creeps celebrate (and pretend that their religion is about celebrating teh destruction of states and murder of innocents (but then some rabbis do claim genocide is their law)

    No, these odious toads will never speak clearly in favor of any state other than the one that proclaims them a master racee and the rest of us their natural slaves

  44. Harpo Jaeger
    September 20, 2010 at 5:41 pm #

    AA: Any discussion must begin with a condemnation of Zionism.
    Thereby rendering it no longer a discusion. Discussion doesn’t come with preconditions, and doesn’t begin with, contain, or end with condemnations.
    Would you also suggest that Jews discuss the “pros” and “cons” of Nazis?
    Godwin’s law.

  45. Michael Ackles
    December 3, 2012 at 9:46 pm #

    They've only gone through it because of their own actions, and people reacting to those actions. Israel should have never been a state. Now they're doing what they were so "horrified and "speechless"" about, to others…

    I see you condemn muslims, arabs, etc, but, never see you condemn Israel/it's citizens for similar actions. So, are you completely hypocritical, a liar, or worse?

    “In our country there is room only for the Jews. We shall say to the Arabs: Get.
    out! If they don’t agree, if they resist, we shall drive them out by force.”.
    Professor Ben-Zion Dinur, Israel ‘s First Minister of Education, 1954, from.
    History of the Haganah, 1956.

    “We must use terror, assassination, intimidation, land confiscation, and the.
    cutting of all social services to rid the Galilee of its Arab population.” Israel.
    Koenig, ‘The Koenig Memorandum,’ 1976.

    “[The Palestinians] are beasts walking on two legs.” Israeli Prime Minister.
    Menachem Begin, speech to the Knesset quoted in New Statesman, June.
    25,1982.

    “We have to kill all the Palestinians unless they are resigned to live here as.
    slaves.” Chairman Heilbrun of the Committee for the Re-election of General.
    Shlomo Lahat as mayor of Tel Aviv, 1983.

    “We declare openly that the Arabs have no right to settle on even one.
    centimeter of Eretz Israel ….. We shall use the ultimate force until the.
    Palestinians come crawling to us on all fours … When we have settled the.
    land, all the Arabs will be able to do will be to scurry around like drugged.
    roaches in a bottle.” — Israeli Chief of Staff Rafael Eitan, Gad Becker, Yediot.
    Ahronot, 13 Apr 83 and New York Times, 14 Apr 83.

    With quotes like these, and the many other quotes out there, attributed/sourced to top officials in the Israeli government, news, and political arena, I can see why the PA did/is doing what it did.

    Honestly, someone just needs to drop a nuke on Israel.

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