The Conspiracy

Some People Just Shouldn’t Talk

http://newvoices.org/2010/06/30/some-people-just-shouldnt-talk/

Louis Farrakhan is ridiculous. Let me begin by putting that out there. I first came into contact with Minister Farrakhan when I was about 12, when hip-hop stars Ja Rule and 50 Cent sat down for a special “mediation” with him on MTV. Rule and 50 were interviewed separately about their “beef” with one another, with Farrakhan left to try to get these rappers to see reason. Sitting on my family room couch, I was watching the special when my mom walked in, saw the TV, and demanded I change the channel. Perplexed, I asked her why. She responded by explaining that, while Farrakhan appeared to be doing good here, he was actually an anti-Semitic racist.

Years later, that incident still sticks in my head: a naïve child, thinking what she sees is what she gets, and the reality coming smack dab in the middle. Over the years, I’ve retained my interest in hip-hop and have heard Farrakhan’s name come up more than once: he’s the leader of the infamous Nation of Islam movement, which has close ties to numerous artists. I’ve tried to turn the other cheek, not paying attention to artists’ personal lives, just their music. When Farrakhan gets on his high horse and proclaims that all Jews are enemies to African-Americans, though, that sort of remark is something I can’t ignore.

First, Farrakhan claims that Jews have ties to the Jim Crow laws and slavery. Last time I checked, weren’t most slave-owners in the centuries before civil rights white Christian people? Unfortunately, I’m sure some Jews did own slaves, but, then again, so did many other groups of people. I don’t see what makes the Jews any more culpable for slavery than the people who started the slave trade, who were, yes, white Christians. That’s not to say white Christians should be proclaimed the enemy of the African-American race, but Farrakhan should get his facts right.

Moreover, many Jews during the Civil War were attempting to help free slaves. Thousands of years ago, the Bible says we were ourselves slaves in Egypt. We, too, have been oppressed as a people. Therefore, the connection between Jews and African-Americans feels almost natural. It’s people helping people, not one race trying to one-up another. Last time I checked, it wasn’t a competition to see who could call each other the most names or something of that sort: freeing people from oppression, no matter whom they are, is a matter of humanity. Jews also fought for the Civil Rights movement, along with African-Americans. Even the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People (NAACP) was founded by a coalition of forward-thinking African-Americans and Jews. Example after example shows that Jews were committed not to keeping African-Americans down, but to helping them attain their basic human rights.

Farrakhan needs to screw his head on properly. If he wants to help people, instead of keeping them down, he shouldn’t condemn Jews, who have most often been the allies of African-Americans, not their enemies, as he claims. I think he’s just looking for a scapegoat. Unfortunately, as it has been so often in the past, that dubious distinction falls on the Jews.

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36 Older Responses to “Some People Just Shouldn’t Talk”

  1. C A
    June 30, 2010 at 2:28 pm #

    Carly Silver,

    Your shallow and vapid display of your “understanding” of history is precisely the reason why Minister Farrakhan is needed. For so many years, individuals have not fully understood the law of cause and effect. As a result, conditions and relationships between Blacks and Jews have developed in a certain way, without a full understanding of why. Those with the power to tell the story have advanced a narrative similar to that which you mindlessly outlined in your article. The research conducted by the Nation of Islam, which is coming from the pens of Jewish researchers and scholars, has shown that the accepted version of historical events seems to be at variance with the facts.

    Please go to the following links that would contribute to an increased understanding of the relationship between Blacks and Jews:

    http://www.finalcall.com/artman/publish/National_News_2/article_7089.shtml & http://www.finalcall.com/artman/publish/Perspectives_1/article_7090.shtml

  2. Leon
    July 1, 2010 at 12:54 am #

    1. I truly love all “GOOD” people (this excludes all people who knowingly or unknowingly do wrong)!
    2. 50Cent and Ja Rule have absolutely nothing to do with antisemitism (using other people as a vehicle for your agenda is what you are accusing Farrakhan of, should you do it too if it’s wrong?)
    3. So-called white Christians were always the first topic of discussion when it comes to slavery in America by the Leaders of The Nation of Islam
    4. Farrakhan has sat down and had dinner several times with Rabbis whom he is on a friendly basis with to discuss the allegations of antisemitism and race relations even at the home of Russel Simmons. (Would a real racist do that? The Clan would NEVER sit down with a black man for any reason because they feel they are above them, Would Hitler have ever sat an eaten with a Jew?)
    5. Of all the great prophesies in holy book was 400 of slavery not prophesied to Abraham? (This time matches up in history only with the time of slavery here in America otherwise, Slavery or The Holocaust weren’t important enough to be documented in the “Holy Books” and I’ve read them all, in Hebrew, Greek, Arabic and King James)
    6. Maybe some other force or power is continuing a campaign of misinformation to divide and conquer?
    7. We love our parents, but respectfully sometimes they are unread and ignorant of facts. (Not their fault, they didn’t grow up in the information age like us)
    8. Do you have your own opinion based on facts that you can point as a bibliography or do opinions have you?
    9. In the Saviours Day 2008 speech Farrakhan made it clear that he wanted everyone to take account for their actions in the slave trade. Whites, Africans and the Jews who funded them (This is clear in the book “The secret relationship between blacks and Jews”)
    10. I like this statement the most “Don’t believe me, study hard yourself to prove me a liar by reading and gathering facts” by Minister Louis Farrakhan
    11. If i stand by and let my friend make derogatory comments about any race, I am also guilty. I will not do that. I just corrected someone for using the derogatory term JAP.

    Right is Right!

  3. marcus muhammad
    July 1, 2010 at 3:11 am #

    Hello Ms. Silver. I’m sorry to say that you need to study farrakhan. Listen to that lecture in its entirety. Then pass judgement because your facts are backwards. Also get the books that were mentioned in the lecture as well. This is research that was gathered from jewish artifacts. None of it was made up. Thank you for taking time out to read this. May God bless you with a clear understanding.

  4. Jehron
    July 1, 2010 at 5:08 am #

    You should take it upon yourself to read the book Secret Relationships Between Blacks and Jews vol 2 before making comment. Its obvious your knowledge base is limited. This knee jerk response Is actually to material that no one has read, and to a speech that not one has viewed. Its like reviewing a meal before eating. So what if you don’t like Min Farrakhan, the intelligent thing to do is read the material so you can respond intelligently.

    I recently read Sasha Polakow-Suransky’s book, “The Unspoken Alliance: Israel’s Secret Relationship with Apartheid South Africa.” I also read the reviews, which were of course made after the reviewer read the book. Now this book is a big indictement of Israel involvement in assisting the Aparthied regime in South Africa with help developing their nuclear bomb program and the Jewish states blatant violation of aparthied sanctions. The book also discusses how U.S. based Jewish organizations and prominent Jews helped hide Israels sale of military hardware, technology and military training to the apartied regime to the tune of $10 billion during that unholy relationship. How come no one calling Polakow-Suranski out for his book.

    In addition since both books are based on source material that aren’t the authors, why not condemn the source material. In the SR vol 2 book it mentions being able to report on the Jim Crow period from totally Jewish sources. You might not like that, but that ain’t being anti-Semitic writing a book based mostly on Jewish source material. So read the book so you can make an intelligent response. And get of this I don’t like Farrakhan because of something someone – including your mom – said. Peace to you, Jehron

  5. Sultan Muhammad
    July 1, 2010 at 6:46 am #

    The Book , ” The Secret Relations Between Blacks a Jews” , Book Two, is a collection of the writings of Jewish scholars , rabbis and historians . READ THE BOOK , as Minister Farrakhan has and any other reviewer has. This is an accounting of the writings of Jewish scholars, rabbis and historians , I repeat.Your response is the kind of stupidity we are condemning , because it reflects a running mouth without facts . More so , people, today, are not as gullible or uninformed as you think , when you take for granted that your simple, unfounded words are enough to derail “truth”. Of course , you may say it has “worked so far”. Are the teachers an example of the “unread” students.

  6. LHL
    July 1, 2010 at 7:04 am #

    Friends?

    Jews “Greatest Slaveholders”

    The Jews participated in the suppression of the revolts and from 1690 to 1722 they took the lead. As a matter of fact, writers Cecil Roth, the revolts “were largely directed against them, as being the greatest slave-holders of the region.”

    Top Jewish Scholar PROVES Jewish HYPOCRISY

    Marc Lee Raphael, Jews and Judaism in the United States a Doc. History, (New York: Behrman House, Inc., Pub, 1983) Raphael is the editor of American Jewish History, the official publication of the American Jewish Historical Society.

    p. 14, “During the seventeenth century the Dutch made vigorous efforts to develop their overseas trade, and their successes with Brazil (from the mid-1620’s to the mid-1650’s) and the West Indies provided Dutch Jews with many mercantile opportunities at home (investment) and abroad (colonists and traders). Jews from Holland, for example, entered the sugar plantation business in Brazil (tax farmers, planters, mill owners, and sugar brokers), Surinam (planters), and Curacao (planters and merchants). For the Dutch, the results were control of one of the great sugar-producing regions of the world, a widening of their foreign trade (refined in Amsterdam, the sugar was then distributed throughout Europe), and a source of great wealth; for the Jews, the results were entrance into sugar production and, eventually, into important positions in the sugar trade as brokers and exporters.”

    p. 14, “Jews also took an active part in the Dutch colonial slave trade; indeed, the bylaws of the Recife and Mauricia congregations (1648) included an imposta (Jewish tax) of five soldos for each Negro slave a Brazilian Jew purchased from the West Indies Company. Slave auctions were postponed if they fell on a Jewish holiday. In Curacao in the seventeenth century, as well as in the British colonies of Barbados and Jamaica in the eighteenth century, Jewish merchants played a major role in the slave trade. In fact, in all the American colonies, whether French (Martinique), British, or Dutch, Jewish merchants frequently dominated.

  7. dreamhunk
    July 1, 2010 at 8:15 am #

    there are some racist Jews that is a fact! look at how they treat the Ethiopian Jews some of them. What about Israel selling nukes to south Africa? look up Jews and the slaver trade ships. I would look up what Malcolm X Exposes White Liberal Jews. The movie 300 was racist movie made by Jews as well

  8. dreamhunk
    July 1, 2010 at 8:29 am #

    where did the theology of the course of ham come from? who made that up? here is a good example of the movie 300

    yea look at them black heads fly in that movie

  9. Akil Muhammad
    July 1, 2010 at 10:01 am #

    This letter is a perfect example of a closed minded person who believes what they see on t.v. and what they are told instead of searching for the truth themselves. I’m only going by what was said. Not once did she mention that she heard him say or read where he said all Jews are enemies of African Americans. Because that’s a out right lie.Then she tries to, but unsuccessfully label him as the leader of the infamous Nation Of Islam, when in reality you have 14 million people viewing and listening via the internet he is the Famous Leader Of The Nation Of Islam. ” I’m sure some Jews own slaves” Some Jews? Read the Two Vol. books published by the N.O.I. (The Secret Relationship Between Blacks and Jews) Vol. 2 just released, if you have the nerve, heart and honesty to be open minded instead of listening to people that don’t want you to know the truth, and make your own judgment. Not based on hearsay. Because as much as this book has been criticized you never heard any Jewish person say it was lies. Because it is filled with quotes from your own people. “Thousands of years ago the Bible says we were ourselves slaves in Egypt”. Not true. prove it, you can’t. You are to young to remember. The famous reporter Walter Cronkite was sitting in front of the Pyramids with Anwar Sadat of Egypt and Menachem Begin and Cronkite said as we sit here in front of the pyramids that held your people as slaves to build this great structure. Sadat stop him and said “We have no history of that” and the Egyptians kept a record of everything good and bad. We are the people the bible is talking about being in a strange land among strange people for 400 years. not you. In fact we charge you with trying to still our birth right. The NAACP Who do you think was the first President of that group and who controlled it. Who was spying against the Black organization in the 70’s? The so-called Jews. Now if that’s what you call friends then who needs enemies. The Jews in Israel today are acting like the people that did hold them in captivity, the Nazi’s. Here’s the proof. The Apartheid wall between Israel and Palestine, the way they treat the original Hebrews ( The Ethiopians ) something you can not deny if you know the history. The Hon. Min. Louis Farrakhan is one of the few men on this planet that is speaking truth to falsehood.

  10. Mr Lee X Slave
    July 1, 2010 at 10:03 am #

    It seems to Me that you are still young and uninformed. Did you get a copy of the book ‘The Secret Relationship Between Blacks and Jews’.. Be fore you make anymore asinine statements get the facts, remember history is written by the victors. Anyway Jewish people piggybacked on the Civil Rights movement.

  11. David A.M. Wilensky
    July 1, 2010 at 1:05 pm #

    CA, lets dispense with one fallacy right out of the gate–that a Jew is saying something controversial about Jews doesn’t make it more correct. If a Jew helps to propagate, for example, The Protocols of the Elders of Zion, that doesn’t make it more true because they’re a Jew. None of which is to say that what the research you’re pointing to is wrong (I haven’t read it), but to say that before you beat up Carly for her “vapid display” of history that she “mindlessly outlined” in the post, you ought to check on your own “vapid display” of how reasonable support of this kind of thing works.

    That one guy has written about Blacks being the true Jews or whatever doesn’t discount the overwhelming evidence to the contrary as put forth by every other historian pretty much ever.

    —–

    LEON, she wasn’t implicating Ja Rule or 50 Cent in her argument, but relating a story from her childhood. So let’s all just calm down before we accuse Carly of denigrating the good name of such upstanding citizens as 50 Cent.

    “Would a real racist [sit down with rabbis]?” Yes. You don’t have to be a KKK-style lynch mob anti-semite to be a racist. There are more subtle forms. I don’t know enough about Farrakhan to say whether or not he’s a racist, but I know enough to say that he certainly sound like he might be, sit-downs with rabbis notwithstanding.

    I’m so glad you have the exclusive, truthful, historical understanding of the Jewish bible. Please tell me more. Like how do you get around the fact that the bible itself no only prophesies 400 years of slavery (for Abraham’s descendants, which everyone from Africa is?), but confirms that those 400 years were the years experienced by the Israelites in Egypt. I know that there’s basically no historical evidence for that having happened, but the bible, which you know to be completely historical, says itself that those were the years prophesied by Abraham.

    It’s a blog post dude. It doesn’t need a bibliography. More links or references would be nice, but let’s all just chill out on the bibliography front.

    —–

    Everyone else, read the letter from Farrakhan for yourself, read this article while you’re at it: http://www.jta.org/news/article/2010/06/30/2739839/in-letter-farrakhan-accuses-jews-of-hurting-blacks

    It’s pretty noxious. The idea is that by insulting people for things they haven’t done, he’ll get them to concede that he’s right. According to the JTA article, he’s referred to Judaism as a “gutter religion.” And this guy seriously wants to seek reconciliation. Give me a break.

  12. Donald Muhammad
    July 1, 2010 at 1:47 pm #

    you should think at least FIVE times before you speak and you should read a little more LOL

  13. Ben Sales
    July 1, 2010 at 3:08 pm #

    I agree 100% with David. Well said.

    And bravo to Carly for writing this post! You’re straightforward, measured and you don’t pull your punches. Keep up the good fight.

    To pick up where David and Carly left off:

    C A: What makes Carly’s understanding of history “shallow and vapid?’ The narrative she cites has several research sources to back it up, while yours come from a single source commissioned by a man who has had an anti-Semitic agenda for decades. He’s the one I would be more inclined to distrust. Furthermore, the links you post only further show how Farrakhan has an anti-Semitic, intolerant agenda.

    Leon: 400 years of slavery of course corresponds to the Jewish period of residence in Egypt, where they were slaves. Obviously the Holocaust was not in the Bible, as it was a moder, post-prophetic historical event. If you want to know more about it, trust me, there’s plenty out there to read. It was the most well-documented event in history. Also, Carly is doing precisely what you say: showing that Farrakhan is a liar.

    Marcus and Jehron: You’re taking the SR book as absolute fact. When a book flies in the face of a compendium of historical research, it has the burden of proof, not everything that came before it. Also, Carly is responding to Farrakhan’s statements, not to the book itself. Also, Israel does not represent all Jews. The Israeli government’s supposed past actions do not and should not indict the Jewish people.

    LHL: Yes, Jews owned slaves. This was a terrible thing. But slave-ownership was by no means endemic in the Jewish community, and Jews did not stand out in any way among the slave-owning population, which as Carly correctly states was almost all white Christian. Jews were also active abolitionists and civil rights activists.

    Dreamhunk: Every society, unfortunately, has racists. That doesn’t mean that all Jews are racists or that Jews are inherently racist. And please drop the ridiculous “300” argument. “Amistad” also had Jewish executives, as did many other films promoting freedom and civil rights.

    Akil: she does in fact cite a source right at the beginning of the article. And Farrakhan is indeed an open anti-Semite.

    Lee: Jews were huge supporters of civil rights in many ways. TO deny this or twist it into a misdeed is a disservice to the actions of Jews who strove to help African-Americans achieve equality.

    Keep it up, Carly!

  14. benny
    July 1, 2010 at 3:52 pm #

    all of you face it–stop deluding yourselves
    Farrakhan is a racist –nothing more and nothing less

  15. benny
    July 1, 2010 at 3:56 pm #

    also
    why is the Holocaust merely an afterthought to the black communuty and the nation of islam in particular
    carly is correct–you were not the only people who have been oppressed
    time to get over it and move forward

  16. benny
    July 1, 2010 at 4:01 pm #

    by the way mr. lee x slave
    what does that mean that the jews piggy backed on the civil rights movement
    they were just helping where they saw a group being oppresesed
    why not just say thanks !!! for your help

  17. benny
    July 1, 2010 at 4:07 pm #

    frankly we’d be better off if we didn’t have re;ligion to give us a reason to take sides against one another
    and how about NO COLOR-wouldn’t that be better–just people

  18. baruch
    July 1, 2010 at 4:59 pm #

    hey ben – have you farrakhan’s recent speech in Atlanta? if not, you can see it in its entirety at this website: http://noi.org/webcast/atl2010. its useless to debate with someone whose stance is rooted in ignorance, and if you have not seen the speech then you are doing just that. additionally, if you would only look at the 2 books that Farrakhan put into print, the research that was done actually quoted only from Jewish historians and scholars. in essence, the books “secret relationship between blacks and Jews” part 1 and part 2 are both indisputable. they are both heavily footnoted, and are a compilation of the works of Jewish intellectuals. to dispute and discredit those two books is to discredit the foundation that under-girds them: i.e., the best of Jewish scholars. . . . your arguments consist of mostly smoke and mirrors, easily discernible to anyone with a half-a-brain. presidents of these jewish organizations refuse to sit down with Farrakhan because his arguments are rooted and backed in the absolute truth. its cowardice at its finest. Shalom.

  19. A-tone, the Hip Hop Historian
    July 1, 2010 at 5:27 pm #

    Carly

    1. Have you read the books, “The Secret Relationship Between Blacks and Jews”, Vol. 1 & Vol 2?

    2. Do you denounce the Jewish scholars whose quotes are the basis of these works?

    Until you have done these things, I don’t see how you can critique or argue against the position of Minister Farrakhan and the Nation of Islam.

    Peace.

    A-tone, the Hip Hop Historian

  20. Elke Weiss
    July 1, 2010 at 5:37 pm #

    http://www.adl.org/main_Nation_of_Islam/jew_hatred_as_history.htm?Multi_page_sections=sHeading_2

    A-Tone, the book has been debunked by Henry Louis Gates Jr, Cornel West, David Brion Davis, Orlando Patterson and others.

  21. David A.M. Wilensky
    July 1, 2010 at 5:56 pm #

    benny, religion doesn’t and shouldn’t give us a reason to take sides against each other. it only does that in the hands of short-sighted idiots.

    everyone, let’s dispense also with the notion that to refute and idea one must read every book on the subject in its entirety. if that were true, all of the supporters of Farrakhan writing here, would need to have read each and every book every written on Jewish and black history in america. until you’re all prepared to do that, none of us are really getting anywhere further with this argument than where we are.

  22. kenneth Muhammad
    July 1, 2010 at 6:06 pm #

    One Question are you saying he Min. Farrakhan is lying ? If so, then prove him wrong. As he has offered his life, if he can be proven wrong.

  23. benny
    July 1, 2010 at 6:11 pm #

    david you’re right religion shouldn’t give us reason to take sides against each other–but it usually does
    yes short sighted idiots have caused the wars and hate for the last 5000 years—mostly in the name of religion

  24. Elke Weiss
    July 1, 2010 at 6:13 pm #

    The idea of Jews being responsible for the slave trade is mathematically ludicrous.

    http://www.civilwarhome.com/population1860.htm puts US population at 31,443,321. The Jewish population has been estimated to be 150,000 [“The Jewish Americans” Dir. David Grubin. PBS Home Video, 2008. Disc 1, Episode 1, Chapter 5, 0:30:40]

    Do the math. That’s .004% of the population.

  25. David A.M. Wilensky
    July 1, 2010 at 10:35 pm #

    benny, let’s not state that religion causes war more often than anything else as though it’s a matter of settled history–it’s not.

    Elke, well said.

  26. shakur
    July 2, 2010 at 12:42 pm #

    to all the anti-farrakhans – in minister farakhan’s latest speech that he gave in Atlanta, he offered his life to anyone that could prove that what he was saying is wrong! . . . the solution to farrakhan is quite simple: prove him wrong and his life is over with. to make a statement like that, he must be convicted in the truth. prove him wrong people!!!! like nike says, “just do it!”

  27. Elke Weiss
    July 3, 2010 at 12:50 am #

    He’s been proven wrong already.

    Let’s do one point.

    In this Book of Genesis, we get lots of pictures of God, and His Promise. In Chapter 15, God is talking to Abram: “Know of a surety that thy seed shall be a stranger in a land that is not theirs, and shall serve them and shall afflict them 400 years. But after that time”—God is speaking—“I will come! And I will judge that nation which they shall serve. And afterwards, shall they come out with great substance. And go to their fathers in peace, and be buried in a good old age.” —http://www.finalcall.com/artman/publish/Minister_Louis_Farrakhan_9/article_7100.shtml

    Let’s start with the final line. It’s “15 And thou shalt go to thy fathers in peace; thou shalt be buried in a good old age.”
    http://www.sacred-texts.com/bib/kjv/gen015.htm

    and if Farrakhan wants us to trust Genesis 15 then…shouldn’t we also trust Exdos 20:2 I [am] the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.

    Brought out. Means it happened already, way before America even existed.

    J’accuse!

  28. Ledelle
    July 4, 2010 at 1:33 pm #

    @ Elke Weiss.
    Sorry I’m late to the discussion. Well Who are these fathers that are mentioned Mr. Weiss? Are you saying that you have the correct interpretation of the book, or that you can prove with laser-point precision that which you post? Is not the Book of Exodus after the Book of Genesis? So if we are dealing with a real-time event that has not happened, but rather is playing out now, (and there is no physical proof of it happening before this time), then we are all logical thinkers, present your evidence that we may continue to discuss it intelligently. I find it rather interesting that archeology with all it’s advancements and findings has not found a single shred of evidence supporting the claim that Moses has already led a people out of Egypt. Lastly! When a man like Minister Farrakhan offers his life as collateral on his claim, it is not of himself, it is indeed of God. It is no different than the Prophet Elijah calling out those who the pagan god Baal. He was backed and so is the Honorable Minister Louis Farrakhan. I await your most studied and factual response …

  29. Brother Ty 2x
    July 5, 2010 at 2:57 am #

    The Solution to the problem is simple. What do the Muslims want? 1. We want freedom. We want a full and complete freedom.

    2. We want justice. Equal justice under the law. We want justice applied equally to all, regardless of creed or class or color.

    3. We want equality of opportunity. We want equal membership in society with the best in civilized society.

    4. We want our people in America whose parents or grandparents were descendants from slaves, to be allowed to establish a separate state or territory of their own–either on this continent or elsewhere. We believe that our former slave masters are obligated to provide such land and that the area must be fertile and minerally rich. We believe that our former slave masters are obligated to maintain and supply our needs in this separate territory for the next 20 to 25 years–until we are able to produce and supply our own needs.

    Since we cannot get along with them in peace and equality, after giving them 400 years of our sweat and blood and receiving in return some of the worst treatment human beings have ever experienced, we believe our contributions to this land and the suffering forced upon us by white America, justifies our demand for complete separation in a state or territory of our own.

    5. We want freedom for all Believers of Islam now held in federal prisons. We want freedom for all black men and women now under death sentence in innumerable prisons in the North as well as the South. We want every black man and woman to have the freedom to accept or reject being separated from the slave master’s children and establish a land of their own.

    We know that the above plan for the solution of the black and white conflict is the best and only answer to the problem between two people.

  30. Brother Ty 2x
    July 5, 2010 at 3:02 am #

    Ex. 7:26 – – God said to Moses, ‘Go to Pharaoh and say to him in My name, ‘Let My people leave so they can serve Me.

    Sorry but american blacks are the modern day isreal and the minister is the modern day aaron helper of the modern day moses, Elijah Muhammad..

  31. David A.M. Wilensky
    July 6, 2010 at 12:24 pm #

    Ledelle, first of all, Mr. Weiss is actually Ms. Weiss.

    Indeed, there is no archaeological evidence. But the text is self-referential. So the story of the prophecy refers to the later story of slavery, whether either is a historical account or not. Trying to apply biblical prophecy to current times or to (relatively) recent history is about as dicey a game as theology can get.

    —–

    Everyone, that Farrkhan has offered up his life is proof of nothing. It’s grandstanding. The premise of his claim that he’ll die if someone proves him wrong is that he’s open to other opinions. He’s a die-hard ideologue who believes he has an exclusive claim on history, so what would make anyone think he’ll ever be convinced that he’s wrong?

  32. Elke Weiss
    July 6, 2010 at 2:45 pm #

    Thanks David. Elke’s a hard name, genderwise.

    But yeah, you can’t cherry pick parts of the bible and say “Oh, this part applies, but this doesn’t.” The entire bible has it happen in the past. If it was meant to be playing out, it would say so. You’re cherry picking verses to suit your own agenda. I’m saying that the bible records it as a past historical event.

    Archeology is an inexact science, and after 5,000 years, it can be hard to find. In one major event, the battle of Kadesh on the Orantes River between the Hitites and the Egyptian Pharaoh Ramses II, both sides record it as a major victory, and is depicted as such. We have unbroken tradition, passed down for thousands of years.

    “Sorry but american blacks are the modern day isreal and the minister is the modern day aaron helper of the modern day moses, Elijah Muhammad..”

    Prove it. Seriously. Prove it. You haven’t often a shred of it and until you do, we can’t have a discussion.

  33. Michael
    July 6, 2010 at 3:27 pm #

    Study and read for your self. Don’t judge and respond like children. Right is right and wrong is wrong, Right? Please respond with maturity!!! The ” Gutter Religion ” quote is appropriate for those who hide bethind the righteousness of true/good religion and words the words of God Almighty to do wrong deeds to others. That goes for individuals and governments. The Catholic preist who rape children and molest them practice “Gutter Religion”. The reverends who suck money from their followers for no advancement of the community but only their greeds are practicing ” Gutter Religion”. Governments who steele others lands like America did in the name of Jesus from the native Amercian, as well in the like, of the nation called Isreal did when they took Palestinian land in the name of Abraham and Moses.

    For my last time this is Minister Farrakhan’s own response to the ” Gutter Religion” quote and I hope you grow to maturity and recognize the context: In 1984, after returning from a visit to Libya, Farrakhan delivered a sermon that was recorded by a Chicago Sun Times reporter. A transcript from part of the sermon was published in the New York Times:

    Toward the end of that portion of his speech that was recorded, Mr. Farrakhan said: “Now that nation called Israel never has had any peace in 40 years and she will never have any peace because there can be no peace structured on injustice, thievery, lying and deceit and using the name of God to shield your gutter religion under His holy and righteous name.
    Farrakhan has repeatedly denied referring to Judaism as a “gutter religion,” explaining that he was instead referring to the Israeli Government’s use of Judaism as a political tool. In a June 18, 1997 letter to a former Wall Street Journal editor, Jude Wanniski, he stated:

    Countless times over the years I have explained that I never referred to Judaism as a gutter religion, but, clearly referred to the machinations of those who hide behind the shield of Judaism while using unjust political means to achieve their objectives. This was distilled in the New York tabloids and other media saying, ‘Farrakhan calls Judaism a gutter religion.’
    As a Muslim, I revere Abraham, Moses, and all the Prophets who Allah (God) sent to the children of Israel. I believe in the scriptures brought by these Prophets and the Laws of Allah (God) as expressed in the Torah. I would never refer to the Revealed Word of Allah (God) — the basis of Jewish Faith — as ‘dirty’ or ‘gutter.’ You know, Jude, as well as I, that the Revealed Word of Allah (God) comes as a Message from Allah (God) to purify us from our evil that has divided us and caused us to fall into the gutter.

    Over the centuries, the evils of Christians, Jews and Muslims have dirtied their respective religions. True Faith in the laws and Teaching of Abraham, Jesus and Muhammad is not dirty, but, practices in the name of these religions can be unclean and can cause people to look upon the misrepresented religion as being unclean. (This can be found in Wikipedia).

    Now it is the same context of ” Gutter Religion” you will find in the activity of the so-called Jews who made slaves and developed the slave system to a greater merchant level mentioned in the two books spoken of, one of which is “The Secret Relationship between Blacks and Jews”. THE TORAH ( which is the old testiment of the Bible) DID NOT TEACH THOSE SLAVE MAKING ACTIVITIES, SO WHO DID? THE WRITERS OF THE QUOTES IN THE BOOK WITNESS FROM THEMSELVES THAT THEY WERE NOT PRACTICING ANY OF THE DICTATES OR COMMANDMENTS OF GOD ALMIGHTY IN THE NAME OF JEHOVAH IN THEIR ENSLAVEMENT OF THE ORIGINAL PEOPLE OFTHE PLANET EARTH! The made captive slaves that they may act as god over them. They made subjects not citizens ( Thanks Mr. Jefferson). The Minister Louis Farrakhan DID NOT LIE. So now it is in the hands of others to act rightly and just. The slave trade and practice hurt, abuse and malfunctioned an entire nation of black people to the point that the results of the slave life has ill effected generations long after the last slave was let out of chattle slavery. The slave master through their children into their generations are benefiting from the suffering of slave making practiced by their parents. They are heirs to that crime on humanity that their parents did and that many of them practice today in a new technology of human controls!!! (IE: DEBT!!!)

  34. Elke Weiss
    July 7, 2010 at 12:14 am #

    My grandparents weren’t involved in the slave trade. The vast majority of Jews were not even in the US at the time. Jews made up .004% of the US population during the civil war, and half lived in the North. Hence, you’re asking .02% who could have potentially held slaves (likely closer to .01%) to be representative of an entire population.

    What about Black slave oweners?

    http://americancivilwar.com/authors/black_slaveowners.htm

  35. wake up
    October 7, 2010 at 4:22 pm #

    Boasting 1,275 footnotes, ‘The Secret Relationship’ does indeed rely on important books by highly respected Jewish authors (on the most part), however these are brutally misquoted and/or taken out of context. Some of the sources stem from anti-Semitic authors such as Frederick Law Olmsted, Werner Sombart, and Fyodor Dostoyevsky. Some sources are not even historical experts such as Lady Katie Magnus, Peter M. Wiernik, Harry L. Golden, George Cohen, and Lee M. Friedman. While other sources are from authors of political critiques such as Roberta S. Feuerlicht and Lenni Brenner. The sources and authorities are misused, and the conclusions about Jewish responsibility for slavery are either grossly exaggerated or outright lies.

    The team responsible for ‘The Secret Relationship’ does *not* seem to have examined much of the vast literature on this subject and they misread some of that which they do use. To further compound the problem most of the sources are grossly outdated. Of just the first 60+, nearly a third date from before 1950 and eight from the 1890s. The American Historical Association in January 1995 issued a policy resolution condemning it. Among the highly respected scholars who condemn the book include Henry Louis Gates, Cornel West, Selwyn Cudjgoe, Orlando Patterson, Winthrop D. Jordan, David Brion Davis, Seymour Drescher, and Eugene D. Genovese.

    Further reading thoroughly refuting this book includes Ministry of Lies by Dr. Harold Brackman, Ph.D., Empire of Hate by Nat Trager, Jews, Slaves, and the Slave Trade by Eli Farber, Jews and the American Slave Trade by Saul S. Friedman, Pages 12-13 in The Slave Trade by Hugh Thomas.

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